Name: Earned Wage Access: Supporting Employees Between Paydays
Uploaded: 2026-09-24T19:15:08.981Z
Duration: 45 min 36 s
Description: Earned Wage Access: Supporting Employees Between Paydays

Transcript for "Earned Wage Access: Supporting Employees Between Paydays": Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining us for Earned Supporting Employees Between Paydays. My name is Stephanie Schifano, and I'll be the moderator for our conversation, with today's speaker. If you lead a team, you already know the quiet struggle of those who are living paycheck to paycheck, where one untimely bill can undo an entire month for those employees. Today, Payactiv founder and CEO, Safwan Shah, will introduce you to earned wage access. It's a simple way to let your people reach the pay they've already earned when they actually need it without changing your payroll process and burdening them with it. Or excuse me, burdening them with added debt. You're going to learn how earned wage access, or you might hear us call it EWA, can make a difference for your staff and may show up in employee retention and productivity. So before we get started, let me cover a few housekeeping items. At the right of your console, you'll find the docs column with related resources, including a printable copy of the slide deck and the Q and A column where you can actually type in your questions. We have a few team members behind the scenes helping to provide answers privately. While we can't guarantee a response to every question, please note all the questions are received and they actually help us create future resources to strengthen your business and provide webinars such as this. Occasionally, you may see an audience poll. When the poll pops up, a blue alert card will briefly appear at the lower left of your console. If you click on the button and open it up, the poll column at the right, it'll be marked with like a red dot to view the poll. There are no wrong answers. Just select your response and click submit and you'll receive a confirmation message. Please note this presentation does not constitute legal advice and is for informational purposes only. And now I'd like to introduce you to our speaker, Safwan Shah. He is an entrepreneur, author and technology innovator with more than twenty five years of experience building solutions that improve financial well-being and workplace outcomes. He founded fintech company Infinox acquired by t y or excuse me, TSYS, which is now known as Global Payments, and has helped drive industry innovation at the intersection of payroll, fintech, and workforce support. His work centers on combining technology, business leadership, and social impact. And I want to say that again, social impact. The reason I'm leaning into that is why we're here today is Safwan and I had some time together about four months ago and I've always worked with Payactiv. I understand what they do as a business, But until I talked to Safwan and truly understood how passionate not only he is, but his company is about fulfilling a need that exists in society, did I realize we needed to have him here. So welcome, Safwan. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Excited to be here. I know. I'm excited. I'm so excited to have you. I hope it's coming through. So what everybody's going to learn today is the origins of earned wage access, how EWA works alongside of payroll, the income volatility problem that exists, responsive responsibility versus predatory providers, and then what's next for this category. So what do we see coming down the road that can actually help everybody? I will share that pay on demand is available to anybody that is a customer of Paychex and it's provided through Paychex Perks. So with that, let's get started with a quick poll. And Safwan and I will use this information to then guide what we're going to share with you as we're going through the presentation. So as that poll launches, what we're going to ask is how familiar is your organization with earned wage access solutions? Question or answer one is we already offer it and we're just here to learn some more. Two is we're evaluating EWA options and curious how Paychex compares. Three is we know about EWA but haven't explored it yet. And four is we're completely new to this. Just a reminder, there is no wrong question. So let's dive into, oh there it is. Here's our results, Safwan. So we have 16% already offer it, 28 they're evaluating it. Another 28%, they know about it but haven't explored it. And then the last one is we're new and they want to learn more. So that'll just give us some additional data we have. And then what I think I need to do is ask my friends behind the scenes to advance my next slide. Thank you so much. So the origin story. How did the concept of earned wage access first emerge? Like, how did this come to be, and did you invent it, or how did you get exposed to it? Yes. And yes. The origin story is personal, but most things, in life don't happen in in one, you know, fell swoop. It it's iterative. I'm an engineer by training and, new financial services, new fintech. And in the 2009 time frame, in that time frame where, you know, you remember the big housing crisis, etcetera. Yeah. The press and media was full of articles about, working Americans, and there was an affordability crisis of that time. And I kind of came from a position of empathy and said, why is it that in the richest country in the world with millions of people, so many people are living paycheck to paycheck? Like, what is missing? Like, has money just evaporated? And, obviously, there were reasons for it. Right? Credit is not easy to get. And the one thing that struck me at that time was that the two week pay cycle or payroll was a batch process while expenses of people were real time. And everything else in this world was real time, but payroll wasn't. And there were good reasons for that because, you know, systems are not designed that way. And it is from that position of empathy that millions of people are borrowing money against a paycheck from could be predatory payday lenders, etcetera, etcetera. And many did not have credit. So it was a big challenge for them, and it is in that sort of background from a position of empathy I started working on. It got curious, got obsessed, I would say, and the data taught me a lot. It taught me that working Americans were paying more than $250,000,000,000 in fees, an aggregation of, subprime lending or payday loans and so forth, and they were paying. And this was being paid by the people who could least afford it. And at that moment, this thought came in my mind that why are two week wages sitting in the system? Who are they helping? And kind of a provocative question was who owes whom? If the work is done, money is earned but not being paid, then we know it's owed to the employee. So why not find a way to unlock that? And that is and, you know, I used to be to lose use a line that if you've earned it and and you need it, you should be able to access it. And then one thing led to another. I've done a couple of TED Talks on it. I wrote a book. But, yes, it was very personal. It was came from a position of empathy, and it had a has a logical basis to it. So, Safwan, I love that. And I know you had told me a story that definitely resonated with me about back in the day, people would work, and at the end of the day, they would actually receive the wage from that day. Yes. And that's a lot of what I believe helped you to get to where you are with pay on demand and pay mean, I. I studied it in every which way. The history, economics, even in in in religion, pay them their wages before the sun sets because they are poor. That's Deuteronomy twenty four fifteen. Yeah. Like, what was the logic of these things? Yes. Everything is trying to respond to an issue of a time, Yeah. and history is replete with examples that people, need to make ends meet, and you don't want them to get desperate. Right. And if there is money available in the system, then it should be able to and as we go along in this discussion So the origin story had a lot of, you know, twists and turns. You can't bring a new transaction type in this world without having a lot of naysayers and good critics and so on and so on and so on. And there's a lot to the origin story, which I think is less important as we go deeper into this, but earned wage access was created by the machinations of the mind of a few handful of people. And, it has needed a lot of nurturing and education that we've had to impart over the years. Very excited that we are here at this point today. That's I am too, and I love that I get to support this product for Paychex clients and their employees. So our next question, why has earned wage access evolved so rapidly into an essential work like, workplace benefit? Yeah. The the obvious answer is because it made sense. And, anything that we do, which involves improving lives, there are questions that have to be asked. And the rapid adoption did not happen suddenly. Like, as they say, first, it was gradual, then it was sudden. So there's this famous it was very gradual, and it was very slow moving. I remember that the first company that went live with Payactiv was in, New Jersey, and it was a reinforced concrete place with about 40 customers, and Paychex was their payroll, interestingly enough. And I'm talking thirteen years ago, twelve, thirteen years ago. It was in Trenton, New Jersey, and that company I know well even now. And, the CEO there used to bring cash to advance to the employees because they were they needed the money. Yeah. Otherwise, they'd go to check cashes. And when I mentioned to him that what we're doing, he said, you know, I'll open the doors. Please come and do something for my employees, and this is how we started. It required these forward looking business owners, small businesses. And this was a business with maybe 50 employees or 60 employees at that time. So it takes a very small, validation to start, but that didn't launch the business or it became successful. For the next few years, forty, fifty companies went live. And I'm saying, Stephanie, I'm saying few years. It took two or three or four years. Yep. And then, for five years, we served Walmart. Okay. Walmart is the world's largest employer, and they stumbled upon us somehow. And they said, we have to recruit people. We have to retain them. We have to engage them. We've tried everything. And and we actually served Walmart for five years, and that is when I literally learned two things, how important what we do. Like, sometimes you don't realize what you're doing because it's just technology. So that was the, I think, the watershed moment, and that led to adoption. And adoption came in several ways. Like, a lot of people kind of took our idea and product and kind of they made variations thereof, but lot of businesses started adopting it. And even the Walmart press release went out in 2017, I think, it was on Wall Street Journal and other places. A lot of people said, what the hell is this? And as we go further, we'll talk more about it because there were a lot of questions. I I used to have this big whiteboard which said 50 shades of no, and they were like all the no's that we had heard from everywhere. So, yes, it seems it was the adoption was rapid, but now in retrospect, it seems like that. Yeah. But it took some years, and it took a lot of data. Data. Data. Data. And we found two types of data which were very valuable. We I always break it down as the measured effect and the psychological effect. Being kind to somebody is usually a psychological effect. You can't measure it. Helping somebody avoid a $30 overdraft is a measured effect. So we tabulated the measured effect. How many dings and cuts and late fees did we help avoid our users? And then we had to talk to them and ask them, how does it make you feel? And two things turned out. We it's kind of bizarre as I look back and you've asked this question. It almost felt that we our product was dignity. Because the fee was so small or minimal or nonexistent, Yep. the employee when they so the rapid adoption did not come by, you know, giving them lectures and giving them, you know, all kinds of product testimonials. It came because it worked Yeah. and word-of-mouth. And and the measured effect and the psychological effect both have to go together. Yeah. And, Well and huge. Now it's a big thing. It's a category. so, Safwan, I'll tell you a quick story about me personally. So two children, young, and I remember I would hit my line of credit in my checking account three days before payday. And it was accumulating like there was a daily interest rate that would happen. And for me, it was like, okay. As soon as I get paid, I have to pay that back. And it was like this it would I lived in that cycle for probably three, four years. And then it took learning, finding new strategies, and I would hit it for the full thousand. And then the next week, I'd only hit it for 800. And but it was still it was this that my goal was to not hit the line of credit. And when I that day finally came, it was one of the best feelings I ever had. So knowing that you're providing this opportunity through Paychex and, you know, we're gonna dive into how it works now. So that's my next question for you. But knowing that we can help people not be in those circumstances, like I remember being in or using my charge card to buy groceries is huge to me. So, you know, the measurable effect and that emotional piece is really important. So let's think about yeah. it it always works. And, Stephanie, thank you for sharing that. I can guarantee you that there are people who are in denial of many things that happened in their life which were related to money. Yeah. Because credit was short, the crisis hit, and we do things we to survive. And these are the reasons that somehow these conversations are valuable because it allows people to actually deal with these issues. And. so when it comes to how it works, I use a simple way of describing it. The word the terms are earned, wage, and access. So the first thing is it's earned. I tend to not use the word early because it is also something you get before payday, but earned is already earned. That's what it means. Wage is tied to work, and access means it is, not an advance. It's it's it's a right. Access is a right. So the way it works is we work with businesses. We have what is called employer integrated. So we can either work directly with the employer or we can work with a, you know, a partner like Paychex, and we do both. Once we are integrated by the business, which is usually, you know, it's an hours few hours of work once we know the time and attendance system, and we are pretty much certified on every time and attendance system. We know exactly how much a person has worked because the company, the business has shared that information. We also know how the payroll calculation and everything is done. And once we are connected, we know how much you've earned. We know when the pay date is. We know how much you earn every single day. So whenever you take money, we tell you what is your accessible balance, what is the safe amount to access. And you go ahead and with one click on a mobile app, you're able to get the money in any form that you want. You can get it on a credit sorry, on a bank account. You can get it on a debit card. You can pay a bill with it, which is free. You can just pay a bill. You can pay your electricity bill using earned wage access, and there's no fee for it. We'll we'll pay it. So we fund the, the amount. Yep. And then on the day of payroll, when the gross to, the calculation is done of payroll on your pay stub, if you've taken a $150 from, your own wage access amount, that amount is reduced from their your your paycheck. That's how it works. It's as simple as that. There are many, many things we do to make it easier, simpler, cost effective. There are five ways you can get money for free. So we can go into that whenever the you ask me that question, but, I would say let we can works. go and do it now too. Like, let's talk about that because that's so important, and that's where I knew you truly wanted to solve a need in society when you're offering this five different ways people can get access to their money for free with no fee. So, it's, Stephanie, it it actually it it happened only six, seven years ago that this something kind of almost dawned upon me That struggle in life is for livelihood needs. You know, the classic Maslow triangle that once your livelihood needs are. met, then you go to the next level, self actualization is is the last stage. So what are the livelihood needs? It's food, fuel, auto shelter, insurances, and telecom. Once you've paid that think about a budget. Right? Struggling. people. Once you've paid those five, six things, then you can think of, okay. I can get a good meal. I can, watch a movie, etcetera. So the way the fee structure is, if you pay a bill and the same app has 80,000 billers. If you pay a bill, it's for free. K? If you, call an Uber because what is the biggest challenge of the working American? Car broke down, Yep. can't get to work, can't get home after work. So what if you could call Uber using money that you've earned but not yet been paid, But it so happens that Paychex and Payactiv know that you work six days. So you have six days of earnings sitting somewhere in the system. So that is free. You can call Uber. So if you want. to get the money sent to your bank account through a next day transfer, that's free. It could be $102,100, $500. But if you want the money instantly in your, checking account or debit card, then it has a $33 and 99¢ fee. It goes there in a second. If you want it on a wallet like Google, Apple, you can do that. So these these are the multiple ways that you can access the funds. There are four or five freeways, and then there are instant access fee. So and the employer doesn't have to pay anything for it. Yeah. And I love that. So what I do wanna talk about, because I hear this all the time, is despite the clear benefits that really exist, there's historically been some, like, stigma, hesitancy surrounding urge range to access. And I see it all the time because I work with our clients. I work with their employees to offer these benefit opportunities to them. And And so they're like, well, I don't wanna do that because, you know, my employees don't need it. You know, there's not an opportunity for them to use it, and we're not understanding truly how it could be used to benefit the employees and help them. I mean, I've managed people, Safwan. I have employees that have struggled, and they'll come in very stressed with work. If I had this when I was managing those teams and could offer it, it would have changed the dynamics for them. So what's the state that it. yeah. I mean, Please. I've, you know, obviously, I've I've been over the years, I've I've I've had this conversation many times with all kinds of mindsets, consumer groups, etcetera. And for me personally, it was very, very important that what we did, what we do is meaningful and impactful. Right? We all want to be, impactful. Mhmm. So the stigma point comes from a variety of things. The first one is this is not how it was done, let's say, in the past. So the change makes you afraid. Right? Human beings do not want surprise in life. There's a whole theory which says that we will do everything to limit and reduce surprise in our life. So this is something new. When something's new, then the person who's using earned wage access has to first explain to the other person that it's not a loan that I'm taking. Yep. And that therein lies the biggest learning that happens from someone who's a credit. That if it's not a loan, then what is it? Well, is the day of payroll a sacred time? No. It isn't. It is hasn't has to be a designated time. If you happen to get your wages three days into your pay cycle and you only get what you've already earned, in fact, what you get is half of what you've earned, is it is it a loan? Are you somehow a failure if you took the money from your wages that you've already earned? Are you a somehow you failed because the stigma point comes from that. Hey. Don't use this. It is some you're failing in life. Now if I ask you and I I don't want to ask a counter question, but I ask a question just to eat her like. it the people watching, that when you put a $100 on your credit card for groceries or you put a $100 and take from your earned wages, which haven't been paid yet, which one do you think is better? Turns out that if you put a $100 on your credit card, if you have one, then the likelihood that you'll make the balance payment at the end of the month is less than 50%. That $100 is going to sit there as a revolving credit. In fact, if you load a $100, charge a $100 to your credit card every month, by the end of the year, your balance will be closer to $2,000 because you won't pay it back. But when it is earned wage access, and I'm answering the stigma question, Yeah. if you take a $100, at the end of that pay cycle, it will be paid off. It so. this is like using your own money. It's a budgeting tool. So stigma point comes from lack of understanding that earned wage access is using your own money, right sizing access timing to yourself, which is the most powerful way to budget. Budgeting is built in. You can never take more than what you've already earned, and it's way better than other forms that are out there. So, yes, there is a stigma thing, but I think education and discussions like this can overcome that. Awesome. Thank you so much. So what I wanted to talk about next is choosing a provider. So as the category has grown and you alluded to this previously, there's many different models that have emerged. So how can employers distinguish a responsible earned wage access provider from a predatory one? And my second part of the question, part two, is what does it mean for employers that Payactiv delivers pay on demand through Paychex Perks? So, when you had asked me about the rapid adoption points so the journey started. I talked about, you know, one company in New Jersey uses us. We go into few other companies. Some larger company comes in and uses us. So we have fifty, eighty, 100 clients. Then one fine morning, Paychex says I serve pretty much all the major small businesses of America. You know, Paychex is the pretty much the heartbeat of small businesses in The United States. And they decided to take earned wage access as pay on demand and put it into the payroll app, embed it into the payroll app. Now that was a major move in the industry that, Paychex made. So I would say that the role of Paychex in making pay on demand useful, valuable, impactful is huge. And where we are today is because of this vision. And that is why we are seeing a lot of people and a lot of businesses now getting interested in it because it's the word is spreading. And the more it is used by businesses, more people become, you know, kind of testimonials for it, positive testimonials for it. Yeah. Yeah. It is so it's interesting because I know I was not around when Paychex made this decision, but this is a lot of what I market. This is my job to talk about perks. And a lot of times, what I like to say to people is Paychex took the time and did the due diligence to research Payactiv, and I'm sure you were up against other competitors providing the service. But working with you, we. realized that you were the right company that we could then provide to our clients. No. No. I absolutely agree with you on that, Stephanie. You're like, of would also were. add I would also add that, you know, I'm thoughtful about this because it is the greatest privilege in life for a technologist engineer for a company to do something which actually is good. It is it is very powerful. Right? We all do try to do good in life but don't get the opportunity to do it at scale. And we feel that no one is bad, but the products that are out there in the industry today and this is a personal point of view that I have that when a business is involved in adding this benefit to for their employees, it is very powerful. It is almost like, the other products that have entered the market are like, you know, you're letting an outsider sell something to your let's say, you don't want your children to get, babysat by the neighbor. Right? Because you don't want your children. Employ your employees, you'd rather give them the benefit or leave them exposed to the outside. Because there are many companies who want to lenders who want to get to those users. Right? What what have we done really as earned wage access and what Paychex has. done with Payactiv? We are the antidote to payday lending. We are the antidote to payday lending and late fees. So what do you think happened to that industry? It shrunk. So those people who were there, they are still trying to get to those end users. And if your employer doesn't offer it, what happens to that employee? Yep. That they don't get the product. So there are all these challenges that are out there. But there are products out there. We think we are the best, and I think, you and I can, you know, without anyone knowing, agree we are the best. Oh, yes. I I'm gonna stick with that too. So, Yeah. next up. So you noted the standard pay calendar itself creates income volunteerity for the hourly workers. So how does that impact their overall financial stability? And I know we leaned into this a little bit, but I. just wanna. lean in a little bit more. Yeah. I I'll share it because I, you know, I'm not originally from the payroll industry. But when I stumbled upon this little observation, it stunned me, and it was a few years ago. So take this year for an example, and whoever is listening, watching, take the month of August, it had thirty one days. And then take the month of September, it has thirty days. Now the salary of a salaried person would be the same for either month because and the rent would be the same. Now if somebody was an hourly worker now take the month of August, thirty one days. But if you look at the calendar, you'll find that there are five weekend days of Saturday and five of Sunday. If someone chose not to work on those ten days, so the size of the month is twenty one days. Thirty one minus 10 a weekend. I work twenty one day. Now take September. It has eight weekend days. It's a thirty day month, but there are twenty two working days. Then you'll say, okay. The Labor Day is a working day for some nights. You know, maybe you can do Uber or something like that. But suffice to say, the number of days that you can earn money in each month is slightly different if you're an hourly worker. So your income changes by up to 10% depending on the month. Now which landlord allows you to change the rent by 10%? Just because in that month you made 10% less. Not because you work less, because because there were less days to work. That is the beginning of income volatility. This tiny observation triggered a lot of things in my mind. Then there is this whole aspect that people cannot get more than thirty hours if you're doing a shift work, and you can get only $20 twenty, hour shift in a week. You're a caregiver. You're scheduling system. So all these things add to income volatility, which means that if income is volatile, then your ability to access your money is now you're always in these stressful tense situations. So dynamic access, like pay on demand, is the only way. So you earn that day, you get 10% of it that day, 30% the next day, dynamic optimization. So income volatility is a real problem. Those who are salaried have no idea what it means on the. lives of people. That's I I would completely agree. We're getting close to the end. We're not at the end yet, which is great. But what advice do you have for HR and finance leaders who are looking to modernize their benefits? Many of them are with Paychex. I'm sure we have a lot of them listening today. What is a perspective that they can embrace to empower their teams? Yep. I always say this. In our journey of Payactiv and as a company, we've got the privilege and the opportunity to build a product which actually works and is meaningful and impactful. The true heroes of our journey, if there are any, are the HR leaders. I cannot tell you how many HR professionals I've met met who've actually, been the reason that this service, this category, this antidote to payday lending exists. Because HR by itself is a position of empathy. Right? And it is a position where both measured effect and psychological effect matters. Most paid HR leaders have experienced the question from one employee or the other that, can I get an advance to my salary? And they've had to say no. So my message to HR leaders is first of gratitude. Thank you for what you've done over the years to make this possible, that there is a new benefit. Tell Stephanie, tell me when was the last time a new benefit was added, which was not a sort of old wine in the new wine in the old bottle, old wine in the new bottle. Nothing's really changed. This is the first time there is a benefit which is as meaningful as, let's say, health care and stuff like that. So that's one thing. Second thing is this benefit is the beginning of a lot of different things. The biggest thing is it becomes with the realization that the employee gets that the employer cares. So for HR leaders, other than gratitude, I would like to say that there is logical, measured, and, psychological reasons that by offering earned wage access in your workplace, you are actually making a fundamental improvement in the in the way your employees perceive you. The beginning of great engagement and retention is when you feel that you are understood. We judge too many people for too many reasons, for the way of life or how they spend their money. But when you give them access to earn wages in a company, you're making a declaration that we care, we know, we understand. That's pretty huge. So I've learned a lot from HR leaders, and I'm just glad that we've given them a tool with which they can do their business better. So thank you. What comes next? So as we move forward and we're looking at earned wage access, where can it go from here? What is the future of this space look like? Yeah. Stephanie, United States has about a 140,000,000 people who work, maybe a 150,000,000 people, and, they're paid every two weeks on the average. Numbers say that there are about $1,011,000,000,000,000 dollars a year that are moved in payroll. And if you divide it by twenty six weeks, so in each two week period, they're $2,300,000,000,000. Where it goes next for me in my simple world of earn wage access, I would like a very large percent of that two week cycle to be pay on demand. That's step one. That there's a lot of work to do. Just like the automobile was invented a hundred years ago, but self-service driving has come now. The automobile is still very important. Payroll is oxygen. Earned wage access is the regulator on it, and there is still a huge opportunity and market to serve. We need to reach every working American so they are financially comfortable that like, they have the feeling that they can get a $100 when they need it, and they don't have to take a loan. They don't have to lose their dignity to borrow from I mean, there's no shame. There's only, you know, financial securities. That's how I think. So what comes next, I think, more and better. And the naysayers would appreciate that this is the best way. Shutting doors on your working people, I used to go find somewhere else to, you know, get money or, you know, wait for your wages and build character. These are all flawed arguments. So I think the greatest the best times are yet to come. That's I love that. And I'm a really big fan of iterating, so getting better as time goes on. Business leaders and HR professionals that are watching this think the same thing. So we do have questions coming in, but before we get to those questions, let me just go over what everybody's learned today. So Safwan did a great job. He talked about the origins of earned wage access, how it works alongside of payroll, that income volatility problem, the stigma, and then what's next for the category. So like I said, we do have some questions coming in. And what I'd like to do let me see the first one. So it says, Safwan, for an HR leader who has never offered this before, What problem does earned wage access actually solve for my employees, and how can I know if people need it? Yeah. You can never know people need it because people are Yep. usually not going to talk about their money problems at a workplace. You have to just look at the data in United States to know that this exists. Over a 100,000,000 people living paycheck to paycheck. People don't have more than $400 in an emergency. So I would answer that question. Second thing is you have to assume that it exists just like headaches exist in life, and you don't have to go to CVS to see that Tylenol exists because headaches exist. Headaches do come. I think I would answer the question that way. And I think the other part of the question was that, how should I offer it to the employees? Yeah. How do I know that they need it? Like, how can I tell I think they will ask for advances. So in the early days of Payactiv, we used to have a very near nice survey where we'd give to employers and they ran the survey. Run an anonymized survey in the company that will give you the fastest answer. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Well and we're in the middle of benefits season. Right? So when I've done webinars that are benefits focused, one of the things we've talked about is surveying your employees, finding out what benefits they need and want. So this is a great question to put on that survey as they're going through to build their benefits package and really know what they want to offer. 100%. It would be a good So I, I think we have time for one more question, and the team behind the scenes is kicking some my way. So what it the question that came through was, do employees come to rely on this, and does it turn into a pattern of usage over time? You know? And can they stop the habit of using earned wage access? Like, how do they get better? Yeah. So this comes from this position of disbelief that 26 pay periods are healthy for you, but 52 are unhealthy for you. Right? So so this comes from this belief that payroll has to be a certain way. And if you access money, it's like snacking is bad for you. Meals have to be eaten at the designated time. I would based on what I've learned, you know, after watching this tens of millions of times, billions of dollars going through the system. People do rely on it. It changes their spending patterns, but it's for good reason that it changes that. I ask a question, and I think everyone should ask themselves that if you didn't have a credit card and all you had was no credit card, nothing, you get a certain amount of money at the end of every two weeks, the tightrope you walk on is a very tightrope, and chances of flipping are very high. When you change this timing of pay, the the the person who's asking the question is right. You change the you change your budgeting pattern. And I think the second question on it is why is it bad for you? And is it good for you? Is it bad for you? And studies show that this is a better way because you're using your own money. It just so happens that it is not in the bank account. It's certainly not on a credit card, and it is money you've already earned. So it is the best way. And if you're going to rely on something outside credit and loans, then this is it. Right. Yeah. I so, Safwan, I was watching the news one morning while I was at the gym on the treadmill, and I think it was CNBC was saying it was something like 63% of Americans are actually living paycheck to paycheck. Yep. And so knowing those numbers and knowing that something like pay on demand exists, I think is huge. And if it has to become a habit so that they're not taking on additional debt, I do think that it's an okay habit to have. I the other piece of it is, and this is the piece that I lean into a lot at Paychex, is Payactiv also offers resources. So education resources, you know, debt resources. The employees can sign up and for free learn more about how to manage a budget and truthfully help get themselves to a point where they can be, and I'm probably gonna use the term wrong, financially sol soluble. I can't even say it right now. Yeah. Get to a. better place is where I'm going. Yeah. I mean, I I always say that earned wage access does one powerful thing. It makes you financially resilient. And, then the question comes that, oh, I should not use it because if I use it, somehow it's a show of weakness. That's the first thing we need to educate ourselves. And this is me, you know, lived through this for so many years and watching so many people. No. No. No. It's their money. When they if they've earned it and they need it, they should be able to access it. And when they get only 50% of it, there's a guardrail built in it. When they can never get more than they've earned, then it's their right. So there is a bit of judge and jury that we sometimes play that we know better for what and people are also sometimes scared. They say, I don't want to use it because we've ingrained it in their heads Yeah. that, it's okay if you use a credit card 30 times in a month. But it's not okay to borrow from yourself or look at me. I'm using the word borrow. How can you borrow. from yourself? Yeah. This just getting wallet. exactly. Well, Safwan, I've loved my time with you. What I do need to do is wrap us up because we're so close to the end. Everyone, as a reminder, you can find an array of resources related to earned way to access and Payactiv in the docs column. I know there's specifically a PDF that talks about a lot of what Safwan shared today. You can download any of those along with this presentation to use later. Safwan, this has been absolutely amazing. I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing these insights with us. Again, I want to remind you Pay On Demand powered by Payactiv is available inside of Paychex Perks. If you already have it enabled and want to learn more, you can click the button in the upper right hand corner of this webinar console to open up the PERCS admin toolkit. I love that toolkit. It gives you all kinds of resources that you can utilize, and it talks about not just pay on demand, but all of the lifestyle benefits that exist through PERCS. And if you don't have Pay on Demand enabled and would like to turn it on, email our employee wellness team at the address provided on this slide, and they'll get it set up for you. Thank you again for spending the valuable time with us today, and we hope you have a great day. Thank you.